tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20975090.post4794057131247509599..comments2024-03-11T10:18:55.852-05:00Comments on Headius: Stand and Be CountedCharles Oliver Nutterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06400331959739924670noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20975090.post-19422343582142202422009-05-07T15:41:00.000-05:002009-05-07T15:41:00.000-05:00Well spoken.
Mark MenardWell spoken.<br /><br />Mark MenardVita Rarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14237598315022861781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20975090.post-8999674368125148282009-05-06T03:20:00.000-05:002009-05-06T03:20:00.000-05:00It's totally a thing. I hate to drop the kumbaya f...It's totally a thing. I hate to drop the kumbaya for a moment, but there's a lot of knife twisters in programming circles. <br /><br />My analysis of the situation is that development, like politics, has this bizarre tendency to attract a lot of sociopaths. They love to try to out e-penis each other and sit at their special table and stuff like that. I'm often the youngest person in the room, and it's kindof sad to see grown men several years older than you acting like pack animals (I hate to compare them to children, who are far more open minded and spirited). These days I show up every blue moon to say hi to the remaining good hearted people (there's a lot of them thankfully) and then disappear into the wilderness in search of more people worth knowing.<br /><br />I recall a time when a developer I thought was a nice person conspired to get me fired from a job (the first and only time I've ever been fired from anything). I backed him up through the whole problematic project and then he turned on me. Personal feelings aside, at the time I was helping a friend pay his medical bills from a bad accident (ask me how broken our healthcare system is, and I'll give you an earful), and I had to scramble to find new work to continue helping him out. Frankly, I still have trouble trusting developers because of it. Guy still shows up from time to time and I just pretend he isn't there. What else am I supposed to do?<br /><br />It's actually pretty easy to tell the good from the bad, assuming you're not a psychopath. The good enjoy your presence, the bad tolerate you out of politeness. For newcomers to this system, you'll initially think "what the hell did I do to deserve this"? The answer is nothing. Sociopaths only care about you if they think they can get something out of it, otherwise they ignore you.<br /><br />Honestly though, I've been around the block, and you eventually see this with every programming group. It's one of the reasons these groups don't last more than a few years before dieing out. I have higher hopes for the survivability of the Ruby scene, but who knows. Scenes, like empires, ebb and flow. It's just the way of things I suppose. Until somebody comes up with something better than Ruby though, I'm sticking around. Even if not so publicly anymore.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20975090.post-52507204634486995002009-04-30T19:05:00.000-05:002009-04-30T19:05:00.000-05:00Fuck You Nutter!
I know this is aimed at me. Why ...Fuck You Nutter!<br /><br />I know this is aimed at me. Why don't you stop hiding behind pretense and just call me out. I'll take you down JRuby Boy!<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />(just kidding)DHHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20975090.post-80154684757740991912009-04-30T16:15:00.000-05:002009-04-30T16:15:00.000-05:00Arnon: I would avoid cygwin, it's full of performa...Arnon: I would avoid cygwin, it's full of performance problems and it doesn't even support ipv6 for sockets. (The last time I checked)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20975090.post-11718284646641349622009-04-30T13:39:00.000-05:002009-04-30T13:39:00.000-05:00Right on every point!
This extends to very seriou...Right on every point!<br /><br />This extends to very serious issues in the Ruby language itself and <I>especially</I> the Rails framework. The community is not only anti anything not Ruby, there is also a very strong streak of anti anything that's not Linux, and in particular to Windows. <br /><br />As a result, the rails people basically refuse to address serious performance problems that exist with the framework. On Windows, rails is <I>super-slow</I>. The community generally flatly blames Windows itself and refuses to acknowledge that the performance difference cannot be accounted for by Windows. Any benchmark you care to use shows Windows to be extremely close to Linux on almost every aspect (and can seriously beat Linux in network applications if you use Windows-specific advanced socket APIs). Rails performs easily an order of magnitude slower on Windows (and even worse on cygwin), but it seems that no one wants to address the problem. This leaves a <I>huge</I> portion of the servers in the world out of the running. <br />Luckily we have Grails. But really, the Rails people would do themselves a great service if they took Windows (and cygwin) much more seriously. Not only they will double their potential audience, but in the process they will improve the Linux version as well as I am positive that in searching for the performance problems in Windows or cygwin they will find quite a few tuning opportunities that apply across the board.<br /><br />Sadly, it's not likely to happen soon, and the palpable hostility in the community is likely to continue to be self-defeating.<br /><br />BTW - I am a full time Ruby programmer on Linux, but I spent quite some time on Jave, Groovy, and Grails on Windows and Linux.<br /><br />On that same note, it would be nice if we could have as smooth an integration between Ruby and Java as exists in Groovy. At least in JRuby. That is much more likely to happen, luckily.Arnon Mosconahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13726145857401009209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20975090.post-53959226684492211392009-04-30T13:11:00.000-05:002009-04-30T13:11:00.000-05:00Well-said. I knew someone would show some leadersh...Well-said. I knew someone would show some leadership on this. It is no surprise to me that Charles is part of it.<br /><br /><A HREF="http://twitpic.com/4a76t" REL="nofollow">Here is my (sincere) response</A> to you and Nick, with as much irony as I can muster.Michael Easterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14799771593145201161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20975090.post-88627596326392255012009-04-30T13:09:00.000-05:002009-04-30T13:09:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Michael Easterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14799771593145201161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20975090.post-2957091178801336622009-04-30T12:36:00.001-05:002009-04-30T12:36:00.001-05:00As Groucho Marx said, "I would not want to belong ...As Groucho Marx said, "I would not want to belong to a club that would have me as a member."<br /><br />I enjoy the work I do in the Ruby world, but I've worked in dozens of other programming and scripting languages and each has their time and place (some of them may be the past and hell, but certainly not all).<br /><br />I feel much the same about Ruby as I do about politics...I respect other peoples' right to a differing opinion, and embrace those opinions, as some of the people of a differing mind are smart and have good ideas. In fact, sometimes their arguments may change and/or open my mind to something, resulting in an improvement in my own quality of life. Thus, open dialogue is not only welcomed in my world, but encouraged.<br /><br />Kudos for a well-articulated point. If only more people saw the technology landscape from 10,000 feet, instead of the driver's seat of their own technology.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14953598909178915854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20975090.post-21559259803838769572009-04-30T12:36:00.000-05:002009-04-30T12:36:00.000-05:00Charles, awesome post! I run a Ruby group in Cleve...Charles, awesome post! I run a Ruby group in Cleveland and currently we cater to the new devs, and I'm trying to find a way to keep the experienced people interested without being exclusionary. Thanks for the post, it will help me when thinking about meetings for our group.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09211743152033273283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20975090.post-83058074976188972192009-04-30T12:24:00.000-05:002009-04-30T12:24:00.000-05:00Absolutely right. As far as rock stars are concern...Absolutely right. As far as rock stars are concerned in the wider Ruby community, I consider you to be one of the few. Happy hackingJilleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09338320878791398261noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20975090.post-92114580352936066782009-04-30T11:48:00.000-05:002009-04-30T11:48:00.000-05:00I give this post two thumbs upI give this post two thumbs upAlex Kanehttp://www.alexkane.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20975090.post-23833330225914544602009-04-30T10:50:00.000-05:002009-04-30T10:50:00.000-05:00Agreed. Completely.
One of the great things about...Agreed. Completely.<br /><br />One of the great things about this incident is that it highlights the great people like you in the community.<br /><br />Similar to Matthew in the above comment, I'm another Ruby/Rails/Merb developer (for 3 years, in Chicago, too) who has never attended an event, conference or group (beyond the people and companies with whom I work) because of the attitude of the "leadership." I'm guessing we aren't the only ones who have avoided community involvement because of them.<br /><br />I'm holding on to hope, though. Thanks to you, _why and others, I feel like I'm seeing the first glimpses of it changing for the better.<br /><br />So, thank you.Ben L.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20975090.post-58078446673303920022009-04-30T10:49:00.000-05:002009-04-30T10:49:00.000-05:00Once again Charles you've articulated it to a tee....Once again Charles you've articulated it to a tee. You are totally correct that the furor resulted largely from the reactions of a few, followed by similar, and often much more virulent, reactions of many. Thank you for pointing this out because it admitting this seems to be a problem for some people. Anyhow, it is a testament to the Ruby community that instead of going silently into our little worlds like DHH and many others believed we would, a significant portion of this community has stood up and rejected immaturity in a public digestion of nerd sexism. It's out in the open now, and I hope it will stay that way.<br /><br />This has been brewing for ten days, and I know that I am burnt out on it after only knowing it for three. But if this is indicative of the kinds of blogs we will see today, then at last it will feel like those of who were summarily dismissed in the beginning are vindicated in some way. It's not the end, because we have a long ways to go, but at least it feels like all the time and energy spent writing on this has actually gone somewhere. <br /><br />Keep leaning, all.ab5tractnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20975090.post-9653834629003057122009-04-30T10:46:00.000-05:002009-04-30T10:46:00.000-05:00Great post! I've been thinking about this issue in...Great post! I've been thinking about this issue in the community. Personally, I don't understand why all of this is happening.<br /><br />I also think discussing projects with an open mind goes a long way to making this community better. In our era, no one knows everything, everyone has bits of information, it's scattered, an open-minded dialogue facilitates finding the best solution.<br /><br />Being opinionated is fine in my view, but I don't think it's mutually exclusive with having an open-mind. I consider myself pretty opinionated, but context is everything. A solution is probably not the best in every context and that's where the open-mindedness comes in, you need to consider alternatives, all the time.<br /><br />Furthermore, a major step in being more open-minded is to do extensive research, know your stuff and know why you've chosen some solution over another, if a new solution is proposed by a peer, receive it with curiosity and explore. You never know what you might discover, in addition to the invaluable new knowledge it should bring you.<br /><br />Anyways, very good article, maybe we need a google group for open-minded people to discuss projects and solutions openly? Just kidding. Or am I? :)Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15614195984149801307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20975090.post-74994012477921049472009-04-30T09:47:00.000-05:002009-04-30T09:47:00.000-05:00Hear Hear.Hear Hear.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09036647645083589323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20975090.post-27114702934948688072009-04-30T09:13:00.000-05:002009-04-30T09:13:00.000-05:00Joshua: I think you mean "The Inner Ring", which I...Joshua: I think you mean <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/bigcslewisfan/" REL="nofollow">"The Inner Ring"</A>, which I had not read before. Very timely and important advice, thank you for pointing it out.Charles Oliver Nutterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06400331959739924670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20975090.post-8410403107273262712009-04-30T08:21:00.000-05:002009-04-30T08:21:00.000-05:00Part of the problem, and it is in no way exclusive...Part of the problem, and it is in no way exclusive to Ruby/Rails, is that people want in but lack the skill and make up for this by being 'passionate'.<br /><br />Trouble is that when you have a room full of people like this then it becomes almost impossible to talk about programming because people only want to talk about Ruby.<br /><br />There is more to programming than programming languages (if that doesn't get me lynched I don't know what will :) )Peter Hickmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20975090.post-61817385180748392392009-04-30T08:18:00.000-05:002009-04-30T08:18:00.000-05:00Well put!Well put!Praki Prakashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14595449464113763495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20975090.post-69782656543419714832009-04-30T08:05:00.000-05:002009-04-30T08:05:00.000-05:00Reminds me of the article by CS Lewis, The Inner C...Reminds me of the article by CS Lewis, The Inner Circle.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01177899705070459636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20975090.post-44546238721600135512009-04-30T06:26:00.000-05:002009-04-30T06:26:00.000-05:00Great post,
All I have to say is open source shou...Great post,<br /><br />All I have to say is open source should mean an open community. Sad to hear this is not the case in the Ruby community. Very glad to hear that some people are doing something about it :) This post is a very good start.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11500474443047274763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20975090.post-50449977758143312302009-04-30T06:05:00.000-05:002009-04-30T06:05:00.000-05:00Great post, Charles! Clearly the best I've read on...Great post, Charles! Clearly the best I've read on this subject.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20975090.post-32467430215027659522009-04-30T05:28:00.000-05:002009-04-30T05:28:00.000-05:00Really excellent post.Really excellent post.Joe Corcoranhttp://www.joecorcoran.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20975090.post-15908922397418369402009-04-30T04:45:00.000-05:002009-04-30T04:45:00.000-05:00I think it's really important to point out that th...I think it's really important to point out that there are some fantastic, open and welcoming Ruby Brigades out there.<br /><br />The Columbus, Ohio Ruby Brigade, with which i am most familiar invites all sorts of people to their meetings, including people who know nothing about Ruby (.NET and Java users from other groups in the Columbus area).<br /><br />Dialogue and engagement is the only way you can communicate what you are doing. We're in OPEN source software. A rising tide lifts all boats. :)<br /><br />I also think it's important that we do more than simply stand up and speak out. We must each stand up and <A HREF="http://blog.knowtheory.net/post/101799339/tired-of-rubyists-arguing-do-something-about-it" REL="nofollow">act</A> to make our community a better place.knowtheoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10640190976059409258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20975090.post-50903837364898153162009-04-30T04:42:00.000-05:002009-04-30T04:42:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.knowtheoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10640190976059409258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20975090.post-29471494979361309022009-04-30T04:19:00.000-05:002009-04-30T04:19:00.000-05:00Great post. I fell acidently into the Ruby world (...Great post. I fell acidently into the Ruby world (and so.. soon after, into Rails) simply because I said yes to a collegue who wanted us to use Ruby on our project in 2005. That moment of "love at first sight" comes to all people in different ways. I was hooked.. not by coolness, not by elitism, I was hooked on getting more done in less time... I was hooked on understanding OO better though Ruby eyes, I would also invite new-blood to enjoy Ruby (in all her many coats and colours) just for what RUBY IS .. a robustly enjoyable solution to a current problem.Mike Leenoreply@blogger.com